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A Serious Answer to a Rhetorical Question

By Rougman, Section News
Posted on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 06:49:03 AM EST
Tags: Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan, budget, education (all tags)

cross posted at a bewildered Rougblog

It is pretty easy to figure out the purpose behind the cosmetic lather that Sen. Gretchen Whitmer is raising as she pits the big salaries of legislators against the educational survival of defenseless little school children. All interesting fights need a villain, and in this fight Whitmer has determined that the legislators are the villains, especially the villainous Republican kind. If mean Republicans do not pass taxes to fill the school aid gap, the children will suffer!

In recent years, as we all know, education funding levels have been uncertain as they overwhelmingly rely on now steadily declining tax receipts. With Michigan's economy contracting faster than an eight chinned Jerrold Nadler, the shell game of the state lottery does not even come close to filling in the gap, and pennies from Washington rarely match the mandates heaped on districts.

So, what is the relative earning status of the people whom Whitmer is ultimately (though inadvertently) pitting against one another?

According to the American Legislative Change Council, in school year 2006-07, Michigan ranked 4th among the states in teacher salaries (h/t to the Mackinac Center) and according to the Empire Center of New York, Michigan's legislators in 2007 received the second highest salary in all the land behind only those of the rapidly collapsing California. The 2nd highest paid in the nation versus the 4th highest paid in the nation, both pretty high rankings when you consider there are 57 states in Obama's America.

I am making light because I know that few teachers ever get rich solely on their salaries, and rich legislators become so either before taking office or after selling their souls as lobbyists after leaving office. Yet, it is hard to feel very sorry for either of these two sides when both have managed to live much better than their national peers for no better reason than Michigan's taxpayers have been an easy target for a very long time.

Perhaps we can all remember a time in the not too distant past when Michigan could take enough money, however misguidedly, from its citizens and could then afford to provide premium salaries and benefits to both its teachers and legislators.

Not any more.

When Michigan's economy continued to chug along and the house of cards stood firm, there was at least enough money in the kitty to keep the system afloat. It was, however, in a fragile state. Enter the financial collapse, the auto collapse, runaway energy prices, and the whole system was destined to fall apart quicker than a Larry King marriage commitment.

The truth of the matter is, Michigan taxpayers can no longer afford to pay premium salaries and provide lavish benefit packages to any of their employees, regardless of which budget line their salaries might fall under. This means that the comely Gretchen Whitmer gets her fight card filled in only half right and, in Gretchen's defense, that ain't half bad for her.

Gretchen's fawn eyed pleadings assume several items not in evidence. First of all, it assumes that educators cannot provide a quality education to children at less money per student than it is currently spending. If state after state after state spend less money on teachers and still succeed, why must Michigan pay top dollar when it is both flat broke and when student scores do not bear out any real bang for that extra buck? She assumes also that cuts can only weaken education and not be used to ferret out continued waste at all levels by forcing a new look at priorities.

This might sound like an attack job on teachers and I want to assure you that it is not. I love teachers and I wish that effective teachers could be paid even more money for they provide a great benefit to society. (I also wish we could run lousy teachers out on a rail along with disruptive students, but those sentiments will never wash in Lansing even if they would save lots of money.) Right now more money for teachers is simply not in the cards.

Further, Whitmer wants to tie legislators' salaries to funding for schools but does not consider making the same attachment to funding for firefighters, police, the DNR, DEQ, MDOT, or any other of the alphabet soup bureaucracies down in Lansing. How else can one interpret this line of reasoning other than it being an encouragement for legislators to collect a full paycheck by simply gutting other areas of the budget and lavishing education with a full arsenal of cash? Political ploys, even ones arrived at hastily, should have a little more brain matter invested in them. Perhaps Gretchen just needs a bit more sleep.

While I am not so certain that Gretchen Whitmer worked long and hard concocting the legislators vs. children strategy, how much time would it really take over the course of a full budget year for lawmakers like Whitmer to at least address some of the issues that really could have a positive impact on school financing, something that her theatrics does not do?

How hard would it be to address some of the recent mandates that have been made on districts that have had a negative impact on school finances but have had little measurable return? How much trouble would it be to consider returning some control to the local school districts? How tough would it be to address some of the burdens placed on districts by lawmakers for no other reason than to please the MEA?

Let us sit back for a moment and think. Does it do more substantive good to pit the salaries of legislators against the needs of sad eyed children who cannot spell, or would it do substantially more good to get serious about cutting back the layers of waste and duplication that take place in Lansing today so that there might be a little extra money to support the schools with?

We know Gretchen Whitmer's answer to that question, though it was intended to be rhetorical.

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A Serious Answer to a Rhetorical Question | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)

I think it's an interesting idea. (none / 0) (#2)
by Come On on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:10:04 AM EST

Legislators are overpaid. (Aside: For the amount of post-graduate schooling that teachers must acquire and pay for to keep their certification, I'm not so sure all of them are over-paid.)
Although Whitmer may be a little off with her combination - I applaud anything that brings down the salaries of the legislators. Their only job is to pass the budget and they can't do that. And we really don't need any more new laws and regulations.
If there need to be cuts, I think the cuts should be close to home and the people passing the cuts should feel them. It's time the legislature realize they are not above reproach and are not so innately special as to be immune from Michigan's money shortfall.
I am not scared that if legislators pay goes down we will not be able to attract quality people to serve. Because if this is the best and the brightest, we can't do much worse.

Pissed and angry. Don't go Glenn Beck on us. (none / 0) (#3)
by maidintheus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:20:15 AM EST

People don't like it when we get angry and I've heard that Power and her comrades are the ones who are speaking.

Here is another thing. (none / 0) (#4)
by LookingforReagan on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:08:04 PM EST

Our dear Governor, Jenny No Jobs wants to keep funding at the same level or impose an increase on funding. To me this doesn't make a bit of sense. Why maintain funding at the same levels as we did six years ago? The reason I find this strange is that we have lost tens of thousands of students that have left the state. Some school systems in our area are looking at consolidation as the only way to continue operation. So the only reason that I can see for Sister Jennifer Granholm of the Holy Sisters of Money Laundering to mainain this level of funding or to support increases is for teacher salries and benefits. If there is another reason I would like to hear it. But if she wants to go on with the same numbers there can't be any other reason then for the teachers to get raises. With fewer students it makes perfect sense that we would need to spend much less to get the same result. Unfortunatly the results continue to slide as the teacher salaries go up.More money isn't the answer. We have heard Democrats bleating that song for sixty years. The solution to this is to remove the cap on charter schools, pass laws allowing vouchers for students in failing schools to attend private, charter or other schools. Put competition into the mix and you can damn well bet costs will go down. That is the beauty of the private sector and PROFITS. It means doing more with less to get a better result then the next guy. That is why government fails. It has no competition and therefore doesn't have to worry about costs. If I am all wet then show me. But I think I am pretty well on the mark. Government is the problem. Home schooled children are doing better on test scores then the kids in Government schools. But then the schools we have now are nothing but political indoctrination centers. I guess that is why home schooling is also under attack by the left. They cannot compete with or deny the better results. So it must be attacked and couched as evil. Besides home schooled children are more independant. Public school students are taught to be dependant and that is the real reason for fearing better educated citizens.

Spot on! Have you heard about NAIS? by maidintheus, 10/29/2009 09:55:48 PM EST (none / 0)

philosophical theory-wtf-I know where she pulled (none / 0) (#6)
by maidintheus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:45:49 PM EST

that from.

Okay, I'll play it her way: So, Jen, how's your philosophical theory working out for "your people?"

Wish someone would have asked her that.

BTW, Jen, I'm not 'your' people, I'm someone who pays your and your husbands salary, and all your staff, and... What a cocky twit.

Legislator Pay (none / 0) (#7)
by goppartyreptile on Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:49:33 PM EST

Are you, on your job, answerable to between 80k and 240,000 people, depending on your title? Who can call you, whether they like you or not, and ask for help battling our out of control government? Or a whole host of other issues? or just to chew you out and tell you how to do your job? Or pull you aside at the grocery store and give you an earful about some pet project?

Look, anyone that draws a salary from the taxpayer has to face the fact that we all get a say in their salary, but I don't like these "kill the legislature" proposals that do nothing about the problem, and only punish those in office. Because it feels good.

I don't know what that job is worth, but we passed term limits in a rush to punish politicians, and look how that turned out.

The legislature's job isn't just to pass a budget, a bunch of trained seals could do that.

And I find it odd that anyone on this website would be upset about the lack of a budget, seeing as how the only way this thing could be resolved amicably would be to give in to the governor.

I sat in the house and senate gallery in 2007 till the wee hours of the night hoping the government would shut down, even though that meant I wouldn't get a paycheck. It was the principle then, and now.

We need a strong legislature that actually does it's job of being a check on the executive... the permanent government. That's where our problem is.

That's a post that should be printed out, mailed by maidintheus, 10/30/2009 07:32:16 AM EST (none / 0)

Education: People/families need to bite the bullet (none / 0) (#14)
by maidintheus on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 07:51:27 AM EST

of leaving the failures of the indoctrination system that has become our schools. We keep complaining and it grows ever worse while more is presented as the answer.

We keep waiting for 'them' to fix it. They are not going to. We must except that.

The only answer is to spend now what 'they' intend to take later. Leave in mass, pay out of pocket, then we will see them change to a system that stays on the task of educating rather then dealing with mandates of social tweaking.

My kids went to private. I'd be very excited to contribute to tuition fees for others AND I'd volunteer for car pooling and school service. I'd gladly scrub toilets and be an aid to teachers. I'd offer to help parents out with errands/supervision/transportation. I'd assist in any area that I possibly could. This is my solemn oath.

We're going to have to fix this ourselves. How to get people to unite in a mass exit? This is the very thing that 'the social tweakers' are most afraid of and have construed to prevent.

Better now or then! (none / 0) (#18)
by LookingforReagan on Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 10:01:01 PM EST

One thing I do know for fact. Since the rage to consolidate school districts and get rid of the one room country schools the level and quality of education has gone down considerably. The one room schools were considered old fashioned. The nice thing about that system was that the local districts set the standards, hired the teachers and self funded the entire cost by letting each family know what their share of the cost was. While I don't advocate paying teachers in eggs, bushels of apples or other things in a barter for service system it did work and a hell of a lot better then now. To prove that education was much better back then I am including a copy of the 8th graduation exam for Salina, KS in 1895. See how good you can do on this one. It seems that in the 19th century having an 8th grade education equipped you better then some of our colleges that charge obcene amouts for tutition. Here you go and good luck.
1895 Eighth Grade Final Exam

What it took to get an 8th grade education in 1895...

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, Kansas, USA . It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.
2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph
4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of 'lie,''play,' and 'run.'
5. Define case; illustrate each case.
6 What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time,1 hour 15 minutes)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3,942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1,050 lbs. For tare?
4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find the cost of 6,720 lbs. Coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent..
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. Long at $20 per metre?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton , Bell , Lincoln , Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.
Orthography (Time, one hour)
[Do we even know what this is??]
1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.' (HUH?)
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis-mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane , vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia , Odessa , Denver , Manitoba , Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.

Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete.
Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning, doesn't it? Also shows you how poor our education system has become.

And, no, I don't have the answers!

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