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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    The Powerless North


    By Rougman, Section News
    Posted on Thu Sep 17, 2009 at 01:55:36 AM EST
    Tags: Michigan legislature (all tags)

    If you Michiganders have ever experienced the feeling that the political clout in your state is heavily weighted toward southeast Michigan, well, just look at Michigan's district maps. If I were to drop a political marble here in Oscoda County it would start with a creeping southward roll and pick up speed its entire journey until it plunked neatly into the waters of the Detroit River, pulling ever farther to the left the more southward it traveled.

    Of Michigan's 110 state House districts, 23 are located in Wayne County, 14 more are either all or in part in Oakland County, and nine more are all or in part of Macomb County. For those keeping record, that is a little less than 42% of Michigan's house districts.

    Things are even worse in the Michigan Senate where its three most populous counties provide anchor for all or part of 16 of the state's 38 total Senate districts. That is a little over 42%.

    For a bunch of old white guys the Founding Fathers, despite having very slow internet connections, were reasonably astute. When the different colonies were discussing the formation of a new country, each colony greedily protected its own best interests. Heavily populated states demanded power based on total suffrage. Smaller states threatened to spurn the new country if they would only be joining a country in which they would be politically dominated by larger states. Thus was born the "Great Compromise."

    However, unlike our nation's Congress, the Michigan legislature was designed with no encumbrance of balancing out the raw powers of large populations with areas politically weakened by small populations, even though some of the sparsely populated areas are much larger.

    Let us look at it another way.

    Trace a line from the southern border of Iosco Country on Lake Huron all the way across the Lower Peninsula to the southern county line of Manistee County on Lake Michigan. Now, cross out all areas north of that line including the entire Upper Peninsula. Then cross out the counties of Lake, Osceola, Mecosta, Clare, Gladwin and Midland Counties. That entire crossed out area is divided up into four separate Michigan senate districts--exactly half the number of senate districts that are neatly tucked inside Wayne County. In effect, the land area of 614 square miles in Wayne County has twice as much representation as areas that cover over 30,000 square miles of landscape from Mid-Michigan, throughout Northern Michigan, and including the entire Upper Peninsula.

    For the record, I have no philosophical problem with there being more power in Detroit and the immediately surrounding area. It would be patently unfair for an area with such a disproportionately large population to be underrepresented in affairs that affect populations. And, frankly, I feel there has been no short changing here. The pain I feel is in the duplicate layering of power in both chambers of the legislature that fails to recognize the importance of land mass and resources. It is this duplication of power in both chambers that creates an undue disproportion. When legislation is considered that affects land and leisure and resources, why should Wayne County and its surrounding counties be able to trump all the wants and desires of those who literally live on and manage the majority of the lands?

    Of course, like Mom used to tell me, we have what we have, and we have to play with the cards we are dealt. (No, that couldn't have been Mom--she never approved of cards. It must have been Grandma.)

    Anyway, as a whining northerner, I was just kind of wondering if anyone else had noticed.

    < Bouchard Picks Land | Statists and Racism >


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    I've noticed and (none / 0) (#1)
    by maidintheus on Thu Sep 17, 2009 at 01:52:58 PM EST
    wonder why politicians (a conflict) are in control of the process rather then the citizens.

    • Another hmmm. by maidintheus, 09/18/2009 12:32:23 PM EST (none / 0)
    Read your MI Consitution (none / 0) (#3)
    by pbratt on Thu Sep 17, 2009 at 03:41:14 PM EST
    Your argument seems to suggest that representation in the state legislature should be determined on land area, rather than population. The reason that 42% of the state's house districts (46 of 110) in the House and 39% of the State Senate districts (15 of 38) hail from Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb Counties is that about 40% of the state's population resides there.

    In Baker v. Carr (1962), the US Supreme Court held that the reapportionment of state legislative districts is not a political question, and thus is justiciable by the federal courts. In Reynolds v. Sims (1964) The Supreme Court struck down state senate inequality in Alabama, basing their decision on the principle of "one person, one vote." Hence, all states needed to comply with this ruling. The MI Constitution, drafted in the same year as Reynolds, complied with this ruling.

    In 1997 the Michigan state legislature (of which the Republican Party had a large majority in both chambers) updated the 1964 Constitution by drafting MCL 3.61 to further guide legislative redistricting. MCL 3.61 establishes the following requirements. First, the principle of "least cost" holds throughout, and states that municipalities should be incorporated within districts if the population of a municipality is smaller than the size of an average Congressional District. Secondly, populations for Congressional districts must not fall outside of the 95% to 105% range of the average district size (MCL 3.63d). Finally, the preservation of municipal and county identity is encouraged, and district lines should be drawn on municipal or county boundaries (3.61g).

    Ironically, perhaps the biggest limitation on the Upper Peninsula and northern Michigan's political power was the creation of term limits. Most legislatures from the "outstate" area had much more seniority than legislators from the tri-county region. If you want to regain power from the trolls, the Yuppers might want to consider eliminating term limits.

    • Observation by Rougman, 09/17/2009 06:36:24 PM EST (none / 0)
    What (none / 0) (#5)
    by maidintheus on Thu Sep 17, 2009 at 04:17:39 PM EST
    would be the solutions?

    Why so many?

    • Yeah ya do, by maidintheus, 09/18/2009 12:38:45 PM EST (none / 0)
    A couple of important points (none / 0) (#10)
    by midlandrepublican on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 08:42:24 AM EST
    1. With Michigan losing population and in line to lose one congressional seat after the 2010 Census, the legislative (Senate and House) seats should have smaller populations. I wouldn't be surprised to see State House seats with constituencies of 75,000 to 80,000 verses the 90,000-100,000 that is found today.

    2. With 110 seats, Michigan's lower chamber, the State House, is somewhat smaller than counterparts in other states. If one wanted to increase representation of smaller communities, a small increase in the number of seats could also be a solution.

    3. Historically, the Michigan Legislature favored the counties and rural areas, which is why Republicans dominated both chambers with massive majorities from the Civil War to the 1960s. At one point in our state's history, each county was allocated a seat in the State House with the remainder of the seats allocated on a proportional basis per population. I personally believe this is best formula, though compromises would have to be made to adhere to the Supreme Court's decisions since the 1960s. (I believe these decisions were very unconstitutional. Why can't states give counties a seat in a legislative chamber if the states can each have two seats in the U.S. Senate?) For example, the law could provide for any county with a population over 25,000 to have a seat in the Legislature with the smaller counties forced into cross-county districts.

    4. If representation and constituency boundaries is an issue, you could have multi-member legislative districts such as Maryland and other states. They have combined State Senate and House districts into single legislative districts into multi-member districts.

    5. Part of the problem is the drawing of the map. The Republicans did a horrible job in redistricting in 2001 for legislative seats. They could have drew a map that favored Republicans much better. An example is the number of Democrats with seats in Northern Michigan.

    6. I recommend anyone with an interest in this subject consult past "Michigan Manual" editions at your local library or consider buying them online. They are published every legislative session and date to statehood. They are a tremendous resource for information on past and present elected officials, congressional and legislative districts (and how they have evolved over time), election results, state government information and more.


    Hey now (none / 0) (#17)
    by midlandrepublican on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 10:39:41 AM EST
    I'm a Republican. I voted for McCain, Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, Reagan, and Reagan. I'm just saying that I understand how so folks moving into Northern Michigan could support a Democrat over the local Republican. When I retire to Northern Michigan in May, I plan to start attending the GOP meetings at my place and will hopefully be a force for change within the party. As I said earlier, the only Republican elected official with a college degree in the party is the prosecutor. Call me an intellectual snob or whatever you want, but this is an issue for some people. I don't hunt, I prefer wine over beer, I drive a sedan and not a pick-up truck, and I wear chinos not jeans. It's a cultural thing, which is why the Republican Party is gaining more Joe the Plumbers and not enough Roberts the CEO.

    Frankly (none / 0) (#19)
    by midlandrepublican on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 10:59:56 AM EST
    I wish we would have a system that would allow for a third or fourth party. It would balance the system and allow for the hard left and hard right to have their own parties, forcing blue-collar Democrats out of the Republican Party, and driving white-collar voters back into the Republican Party.

    We mostly agree! (none / 0) (#30)
    by maidintheus on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 02:43:29 PM EST
    Therefore there's nothing to gain by beating each other up. That doesn't bring us closer.

    If midlandrepublican is an intellectual, good! There might be some reasonable areas where he has a more left leaning bent then some may prefer. We can discuss in a non-threatening way.

    "I'm a Republican. I voted for McCain, Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, Reagan, and Reagan. I'm just saying that I understand how so folks moving into Northern Michigan could support a Democrat over the local Republican. When I retire to Northern Michigan in May, I plan to start attending the GOP meetings at my place and will hopefully be a force for change within the party. As I said earlier, the only Republican elected official with a college degree in the party is the prosecutor. Call me an intellectual snob or whatever you want, but this is an issue for some people. I don't hunt, I prefer wine over beer, I drive a sedan and not a pick-up truck, and I wear chinos not jeans. It's a cultural thing, which is why the Republican Party is gaining more Joe the Plumbers and not enough Roberts the CEO."

    Personally, I mostly agree with this. If I were Joe the Plumber I'd say, 'thanks for having the gonads to say it'.

    OTOH, I'm very partial to J the P. I'm partial to Palin as well.  I've voted the same as our resident intellectual though. We're clearly on the same side, so far. Let us take some much needed criticism. He has touched on some areas that weigh heavy in my mind.

    We should take a measured and patient approach and not insist all our little "plumber" eggs be put in one basket, all at one time no less. This 'all or nothing' approach has been a huge problem for us.

    This patient approach extremely for the other side, I beg you to notice. It is brilliantly used by Communists.  These are people and groups with a plan.  They won't be thrown by making concessions and not getting their way, therefore cutting the nose to spite. They just go incremental. Why do we let others use what works? Does not even the Bible say, "precept by precept?" Go back, read his stuff again, take out what ya don't like, most will remain intact.

    But 'Oh hell no' not us Joe's. A Joe will even vote for the 'other' guy just because he isn't getting his one or several pet issues.  Look, that isn't working!  It's in fact stupid. I say, keep the intellectual, he has some very good (ouch though) points.  Elsewhere, we can argue with him but treat him as a known allied force, we won't take these out with 'friendly fire'.

    If he says anything else negative about Sarah, I'll come through the computer screen though :P

    I like p-up trucks too! (none / 0) (#31)
    by maidintheus on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    And the Libertarian tends to lean Democrat, they land a vote over there quite frequently. They're thieves, I tell you! Why do they call themselves Liberal? Whatsup with the civil rights rip off? And plenty of their causes, ripped straight off a Quaker with a twist for ruining the economy by forcing things we can't afford. Like one should legislate generosity, a crock and scheme! I could go on, you get the point. No, I'm not goin' all 3rd Party. I'll vote for McTurd again if I have to.

    Plenty of Anarchy to go around with Libertarians as well. A bit too chaotic for my taste and I'm not into their Dem leanings.

    As for "why aren't there more" of us running for bla, bla, bla... Hey, you just got through saying we're a bunch of yahoos and you want a 3rd party. Try voting for us and YOU can quit with the friendly fire as well.

    Your party? (none / 0) (#43)
    by midlandrepublican on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 07:38:08 PM EST
    How many of you have paid membership dues to the Republican National Committee? Unless you have, it isn't YOUR party.

    By the way (none / 0) (#49)
    by midlandrepublican on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 08:15:39 PM EST
    I am also one who thinks that Governor Milliken has a place in the GOP. I know the grassroots of the Michigan Republican Party has been hostile towards him ever since Dick Headlee's victory over L. Brooks Patterson in 1982 primary for governor, but he does have words of wisdom and experience that should be received in the big tent that is supposed to be the Republican Party.

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