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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    Word to the wise in MI GOP


    By Angry White Male, Section News
    Posted on Thu Oct 09, 2008 at 09:58:56 PM EST
    Tags: (all tags)

    John Henke wrote the following on The Next Right, and it describes the Michigan GOP legislative caucuses so precisely that I must share:

    from "Tax Cuts: The Noise Before Defeat"

    Tax cuts are a tactic, not a strategy, but Republicans have found so much tactical success with tax cuts that they have come to think of it as sufficient in itself. However, as Sun Tzu said, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Republicans have made a serious strategic mistake in becoming so dependent on "tax cuts", both as a way to win elections and as a proxy for "limited government."

    Without spending cuts tax cuts aren't really tax cuts, and Republicans lose their traditional stronghold on fiscal and tax credibility (which would explain why the public actually trusts Democrats more than Republicans on taxes).

    The problem, of course, is that Republicans can't focus on spending cuts, because they haven't had any significant, viable ideas for how to limit spending, and the Right hasn't yet figured out how to mobilize a major constituency around spending issues.  We can talk all we like about "ending the Department of Education", but it turns out that's much easier to say than to do.

    We lack a price mechanism to connect taxes and spending in the minds of the public.

    The public perceives the costs (taxes) and the benefits (entitlements, agencies, etc) as separate things, so entitlements and government agencies are about as popular as you might expect free benefits would be.

    < I Dare You! | And I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad... >


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    Well, I've been (none / 0) (#1)
    by chetly on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 10:17:47 AM EST
    saying to candidates all along that they should lead with common-sense spending reforms (not cuts, either) before tax cuts, or that the two should always be linked together.

    I agree we've lost some of that in our message, however, I think it oversimplifies when he says that the public sees benefits as disconnected from taxes.  Running high budget deficits, for which Republicans deserve some of the blame, does disconnect it somewhat, and R's lost the stronghold on the issue of fiscal conservativism partly because of that and partly because Bush and our own member voted to expand government directly and got caught in the earmark game.  If people purely liked their benefits, Republicans wouldn't have paid as dearly for those expansions.

    That said, we are dumb if we believe that people don't like some of the benefits of government.  Social security is the one where the perception that R's attacked it (they didn't really) hurts. People understand the price of some benefits and still want it - perhaps because they've paid the price for so long they feel their owed it (valid) and perhaps because they're willing to pay for some safety net and security.  Republicans need solutions that don't dismantle that security and safety net, but do increase choices, make the programs more responsive, and less costly or more efficient.  This requires a Kemp-Gingrich-JC Watts type of thinking.

    Republicans will have some time to rethink the conservative movement though, and as Joseph Shumpeter would say, creative destruction will hopefully allow us to clear out most of the dead weight without clearing out too many of the good guys (and some of them will go as well).


    Chetly Zarko
    Outside Lansing & Oakland Politics

    Chetly (none / 0) (#2)
    by MarkMuylaert on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 10:54:39 AM EST
    I'm afraid that republican's are going to have a lot of time on their hands to think about what they did since taking control of Congress in 1994.  Since that time they have abandoned the ideals of small government, lower taxes and personal responsibility.  I really do not think they will recover anytime soon.  

    I truely believe we are in a period of socialist/democrat domination for many years with their intent to destroy this country and the ideals of our founding fathers.  We will become just another spineless country dependent on the UN.

    I have seen personally the salivating by democrats who can't wait to rip the Constitution apart.  Hate is a great motivator and they have sufficiently motivated enough hate at Bush and anything conservative.  

    The republican party is finished and will be a minor player for years to come.  Hopefully Libertarians can take their place and many conseervatives will find a home with them.

    VIVE LIBERTE'
    Vote Libertarian!

    Down in the dumps, much? (none / 0) (#3)
    by John Galt on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 09:29:22 PM EST
    Ya know, in 2004 folks were saying the Democrats were on the verge of extinction.

    The rhetoric gets old.  "Republicans have lost their way"... yadda yadda yadda.  

    The Republican party, like the Catholic Church, the YMCA and the Boy Scouts are just a group of individual people.  I am no more defined as a Catholic by the pedophile priest or loudmouth racist than I am as a Republican by the big-spending Joe Schwarz or lobbyist Jack Abramoff.  

    I am also not defined by this trash talk about how all is lost for Republicans, particularly when it's spun by left-wing media or third party hacks with something to benefit from talking down and making people despair.

    I am a Republican, plain and simple.  I'm working towards the goals I see as necessary to move the country forward.  Do we have hurdles?  Sure.  Do we have RINOs?  Sure.  I think I can do more good working as a Republican than a third-party nobody shouting from the sidelines like some high-school athlete "coach! coach! put me in coach! you're gonna lose the game!".

    I can't pick and choose my church members, and I can't pick and choose my Republican colleagues.  But I can work as hard as I can, and be a model of what I'd like to see in others.  I can speak positively and hopeful, and work towards a better tomorrow - with a vision and a plan, than just trash talking people and a slogan.

    Sorry John (none / 0) (#4)
    by MarkMuylaert on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 10:20:13 PM EST
    but us third party hacks as you call us have had enough of your brand of republicans.  They have sold the republican brand out long ago and no one including you is going to change that.  Both parties are the same now, there isn't much difference.  Republicans can sing a good tune, but it sounds like the same song democrats sing.  

    VIVE LIBERTE'
    Vote Libertarian!

    I find it inappropriate (none / 0) (#5)
    by jgillmanjr on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 06:41:39 AM EST
    That John Galt is using that call sign.

    • Huh? by maidintheus, 10/11/2008 12:34:34 PM EST (none / 0)
    It is interesting though (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ed Burley on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 10:47:12 AM EST
    that in Clinton's first three years in office (two of those before the GOP took over Congress), he cut (real cuts) in non-defense discretionary spending by almost 3/4 of a percent. No other president has done such a thing in recent history.

    The sad part is that the few conservative democrats that helped Clinton achieve that have been lost to the Republican revolution, and now, it seems, the majority of people in Congress are either ultra-liberal Democrats or RINOs. The FEW Republicans who voted against the bailout have a large number that won't talk about real spending cuts when telling the electorate "what needs to be done" (sorry to be so hard on you Mr. Walberg - I think you are a good man, but we NEED spending cuts more than anything else...period).

    I believe an answer for those of us who swing libertarian can be found here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v30n5/cpr30n5-3.html

    Who is the most free market oriented candidate? I would think McCain, and that's why I am supporting him; but, the GOP needs to find more classical liberals, who believe in freedom, in the marketplace and in our homes.

    Is it true (none / 0) (#10)
    by maidintheus on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 01:13:55 PM EST
    that 'birds of a feather flock together'? Sometimes. Sometimes not, depends on how you do your flocking.

    It's interesting to note that Howard Stern is a Libertarian 'leaning' celebrity.

    There are many areas where an agreement can be found if one looks over what a 'party' promotes as their platform.

    We all have our own reasons for our leanings but in the end we must choose wisely when we cast our vote.

    Maid in the USA (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ed Burley on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 06:36:04 PM EST
    "Why? Hope you can 'splain this.
    And what are you doing, Jr? You persist in helping out the other side?"

    John Galt, the main character in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, would never have advocated government policies. Galt undermined the nationalizing of America's industries; returning the "producers" wealth to them, and encouraging them to leave their businesses (which were being stolen by the government anyway) behind.

    And, please define "the other side." If you mean Democrats, then I would ask why you and others here continue to support a Republican party that wants to increase federal spending, nationalize industries (like Banking), inflate the monetary system through artificially low interest rates, etc.? What Jason, and others, including me, are advocating is a Republican Party returning to their roots. I seem to remember a certain GOP candidate that proposed the same thing - and y'all didn't like him very much.

    So, who's "the other side"? The real conservatives, or the Democrats that the GOP keeps trying to emulate?

    The choice has to be made (none / 0) (#13)
    by John Galt on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:27:31 AM EST
    John Galt destroyed the engine that ran the world because it could not be fixed.  

    For all of the Ayn Rand types who keep saying I shouldn't use this handle; I don't see you advocating revolution.  I don't see you urging the producers to go underground.  You advocate voting third party as the sole solution, selling only dispair and not any kind of vision.

    I am not a party. I am an individual.  I am a Republican by my ideals and my values.  Other people have their ideals and values.  I am not defined by the Treasury Secretary or the President, with whom I may disagree with.  I am a Catholic, and I disagree with pedophile priests.  I am not defined by the Spanish Inquisition, and I'm not defined by a $700+bn bailout.  I'm defined by my work in moving things towards my vision and my goals.  

    And, in the end, we all agree we need a government.  We have a government.  It's more productive for me to work within the established framework to make things better than proclaim to tear it down and rebuild it.  Look at how successful those people have been.  Ah, not even as successful as the Libertarians.

    My choice is that things are not broken beyond repair.  What's your choice?  Despair?  Advocating despair and duldrums?  I might work in vain, but I at least work hard.

    How noble John! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ed Burley on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:19:47 PM EST
    However, it is YOU who chose the John Galt moniker, not me or Jason; and it is YOU who dishonors the philosophy of the character John Galt.

    I have stated numerous times here that I am planning on voting for McCain. I am one who is being persecuted at work for my Republicanism (you all would know that had my blog submission been posted). I am the one who is advocating, not revolution, but a return to the small government roots of modern Republicanism (not Lincolnian Republicanism, which believed in a strong central government who would dictate policy that every state would follow).

    For you to claim Galt's name and hold the "vision" that you do is like Obama posting here under the moniker of Thomas Jefferson, except that Jefferson was a real person. Oh and btw, Rand wasn't anti-government. She despised the anarchists within classic liberalism. She supported Goldwater, and Reagan as governor of California. She was critical of Reagan in later years, but remained a Republican, a limited government conservative who believed in free markets, free from government intervention and regulation.

    Jason and I do not have to be revolutionaries, for we did not choose the pseudonym of one. You did, and don't deserve it.

    At least that's my opinion.

    You don't accomplish much advocating (none / 0) (#15)
    by John Galt on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 09:34:05 PM EST
    When you sit here bashing me, Ed.  Lead by example, my friend.  Slogans and spam don't change the game.  Preaching to the choir about "Vive Liberte!" and "Obama the socialist" has its limits.    

    Being surrounded by Liberals at work sucks.  And that's just a small microcosm of the entire electorate.  I'm sure many of your coworkers aren't dumb or stupid.  But what model have they been given?  

    Labor unions breed on the propaganda their leadership gives them.  Poor families here about tax breaks for the rich.  People with no health care get a bill they toss on a pile that they won't ever pay.  Democrats have a message for these folks.  What's your message?  Telling someone "suck it up, free market baby!" isn't gonna work.

    The problem Republicans have is telling people what programs they'll cut - and still getting elected.  You're gonna cut aid that goes to some organization doing something their electorate feels good about.  You can spend all day talking about how inefficient it is, or how there's four others doing the same thing.  

    Instead of arguing over Atlas Shrugged, let's figure out what federal, state and county programs can be cut.  Let's figure out a message and a vision for the future.  And even though you're begrudingly voting for McCain, maybe go out and pass out literature or work a polling place on election day.  We're all individuals, but each one of us adds up.  

    Galt (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ed Burley on Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:17:29 PM EST
    Again, you fail to read very much of what I have written. In another post of mine (a response to you...), I agreed with you that budgets cannot be slashed (in fact, I gave some examples of how to move in that direction). This will take some wisdom, which Sen. McCain does not possess in the economic realm.

    How indeed do we fix our problems, John? You want to use an Ayn Rand character, but you don't want to talk about Ms. Rand? What's up with that?

    Am I wrong that Obama is a socialist? Prove it! The simple fact that he advocates nationalizing health care even more than it already is, taxing productivity (which lowers it), and increase regulations (central planning baby), in my opinion, proves he's a socialist. Prove otherwise, if you can.

    I do not support many of the things that McCain advocates (cap-and-trade, CEO pay limits, the bailout, the continued devaluing of our economy by the banking industry, to name a few); but, I do agree on a couple of issues, which is more than I agree with Obama on. So, I'll vote for him because there's no one else that's viable. Isn't that what you've argued all along?

    Yet, now I have no right to try to get our Republican nominees to return to a limited government, free market ideology? I have to just vote McCain, and allow him to destroy our economy, like Bush is doing?

    The reality of it is, unless someone wises up, our economy is going south...no matter who gets elected. Right about now, it's all coming down to the abortion issue. That's the ONLY reason that I'm voting for McCain, period.


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