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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    Policies, Not People

    By Ivan Marten, Section News
    Posted on Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 07:40:11 AM EST
    Tags: ideas, principles, right v. left (all tags)

    Since the beginning of the Agema Facebook situation a greater portion of time, posting, and argument has focused on the people involved in this situation.

    Whether it is someone throwing out insults, accusations, or labeling someone as something or if it is the discussion of a persons past, their intent, or what they hope to gain from all these. Regardless of the purpose, the focus has mostly been on people.

    Since when did we become the side of the spectrum that is about ad hominem attacks? Since when did we become the party that focuses more on people than principles or policies?

    While a select few have pivoted and started talking about the real issues here the greater part of this situation has become focused on the people.

    This was a perfect opportunity to do two things:

    1. Talk about the importance of marriage family.
    2. Show that principles are not formed with opinion polls.

    Instead we have resorted to the same dirty tactics the other side uses, and now the two sides in this debate are no better off than when they started. Sure, one group might thing they are ousting a hard-and-fast ideologue. The other side might think that they have finally flushed out the squishes from silence... but again that's about people.

    There is, or at least there was, an opportunity to have a real debate within our party about this issue, and instead we let two people frame the terms and the direction of that debate. Regardless of how you feel about the two, both had same major flaws in their opening salvo.

    While media across the state was laser-focused on this issue we chose to do almost nothing to talk about the issue. I didn't see any coherent discussion about the importance of marriage, why we on the right seemingly are "old fashioned," or why - right or wrong what was posted on Facebook - the discussion should be about the importance of marriage and what it means to a stable society.

    But instead we let the media pin that article on each person that chose to stand up and talk. Why? Because this became about a person and what they did; instead of being about an issue based in principle.

    Most reading will disregard this post and have some self-defensive reason for saying and acting how they did. That's fine, it is expected and really part of human nature. But if no one takes this to heart, and if no one on the right is willing to start talking about principles and policies again (regardless of it they read this blog) we are in trouble - deep trouble.

    I know that many in the Tea Party movement feel that we need to hold the feet of those in office and with platforms to the fire but we have lost our way. Now, instead of debating ideas, we are simply about anger and disgust. We have become consequentialists who care more about the ends than the means. We have become intellectually lazy.

    So let's turn this train around. Let's start talking about the ideas again. Let's shelve the faux-rage (and the real rage) and accept that in politics people will do no-good, low-down, dirty-nasty things to people for gain. Let's accept that they will attack people because they are seen as a foe.

    And then let's do what conservatives have always done and beat them with ideas. It shouldn't matter who is saying it, if they are wrong - let the ideas lead the day.

    If we aren't willing to put aside the inter-personal battles in favor of the war of ideas, we will get trapped in a quagmire. Then, someone will come along willing to talk about ideas, any ideas, and they will be whom the people here. So if we aren't there to counter those ideas... our voice is silenced.

    A parting note: having seen many Tea Party and Liberty movements across the country, the ones that are most effective are the ones that put intelligent, well-spoken, and unflappable people to the forefront that have the most cogent and well-said ideas. The ones that get people elected are the hardest working, because they spend their time listening to those smart people and then taking action: walking doors, making phone calls, writing well thought out blog posts with lots of links - not pictures.

    The groups that struggle are the ones that follow those with the loudest voices. The ones that lead not through ideas but personality. Rush, Hannity, Levin, and even Steyn are entertainers to some degree. The goal should not be to mimic them but instead mimic Bastiat, Coolidge, Madison, Mason, and More.

    < Fridays Divertere: Right-wing Troglodyte | Saturday Divertere - Kelly Trudell >

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    We HAVE talked (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by JGillman on Sat Apr 06, 2013 at 08:19:44 AM EST
    about ideas.  We have talked about the damage by a lifestyle that carries with it mental issues, physical ailment, and rightfully, a public stigma that is being shed through minor relational adjustments.  That last part will leave us with more dysfunction, greater health problems, and a society that has lost its relationship with God.

    At the same time within our political spectrum there are those who distort or present other ideas as credible where they are not.  Those people must be noted for what they represent. Unfortunately, it sometimes takes the tools of ridicule to properly identify them.

    Don't think your words are unappreciated, but this is an all out brawl for the collective well being of our state and nation.  The discussion of bad decisions has unfortunately been held off by fears of political correctness for too long. The PEOPLE who should be supporting traditional activities have been taught by our decades of silence to think homosexuality is acceptable, or at least on par with other civil rights issues; something with which reality is in conflict.

    Also, this is a place for reasoned discussion, and we are in the business of influence.  What it takes for a proper presentation of truth will be the writer's prerogative. In the meantime, you are welcome to participate, and by golly I guess it was all this hullabaloo that made it happen once.

    What we are doing works.

    If you would like to add more statistics, provide links for perusal, or even provide your own objectivity, please feel free to do so.  We will use ALL the tools available.

    If not about people, what is policy? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Corinthian Scales on Sun Apr 07, 2013 at 10:08:46 AM EST
    Please do explain, Mr. Marten.

    Also, do note that I choose to respect the individual for the content of what is being stated by every one of them, of which, you appear to openly marginalize the individual in "many Tea Party and Liberty movements across the country".  Not all will, nor desire to meet your said "goal" pining for your chosen imitations.  Much to your chagrin Mr. Marten, those folk you deride are as American as the authors of the biggest F#@% You on record.

    • Time spent. by Ivan Marten, 04/07/2013 01:22:25 PM EST (none / 0)
      • Gobsmacking by Corinthian Scales, 04/08/2013 10:19:02 AM EST (none / 0)
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