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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    New poll shows DeVos would beat Granholm if election were held again today


    By Nick, Section News
    Posted on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:07:10 AM EST
    Tags: (all tags)

    A new poll published today by Lansing insider subscription publication MIRS says that if voters had a chance to go back to November 7, 2006 knowing what they know now, Dick DeVos would be the governor of the state of Michigan.

    Sounds like folks are having buyers' remorse.  

    I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than I should (after all, 11/7 is over and done with...) but numbers like this are unavoidably significant on a variety of fronts.

    *First of all, they show that people are waking up to the Granholm game.  All charisma and no leadership might help you win an election but after four and a half years people are realizing it does NOT help you run a state.

    As her popularity plummets - she has a 21% approval rating according to the most recent EPIC / MRA numbers - so too does her ability to force her agenda through the legislature.  We could see this earlier in the year as she went back on her campaign promise not to tax services and unveiled her multi-billion dollar excise tax hike scheme.  She trotted out her plan with all the bells and whistles, giving it a clever populist name (the "two penny plan") and laying it on thick in televised "town hall" meetings across the state with studio audiences selected by the administration.  

    Should have been a slam dunk.  But no, she couldn't even get a vote in the Democrat controlled House of Representatives, let alone passage.

    *It also indicates the governor's own political future may be on less of a firm foundation than once thought.  Speculation for the last year or so in Lansing has been that Granholm's next step was either a cabinet position under an 08 Democrat Presidential winner (God save us) or that she'd become the heir apparent to Carl Levin in 2014.  While wretched poll numbers and an inability to move an agenda won't stop a federal appointment it could very well put a damper on hopes and dreams of another statewide election victory no matter how far down the line.  And if things in Michigan continue to deteriorate at even half the rate of her first term in office?

    *More immediately these sorts of polls and numbers could have a dramatic effect on the legislature and the 08 elections.  With voters saying "we made a mistake" it isn't a stretch to expect some moderate and conservative Democrats in the House to distance themselves from Granholm and her policy agenda much the way Republicans tried to distance themselves from President Bush in 2006.  

    It's also worth noting that attempts to distance themselves from the President didn't work and democrats swept to power on the weakness of the R behind their opponents names.  We may very well look back on this day and these numbers as the moment Jennifer Granholm began at best fading into irrelevancy within her own party and at worst became a pariah in moderate Democrat circles.

    Only time will tell, but the extreme left and the tax-and-spenders, in the quiet of their own thoughts and behind closed doors are NOT happy this morning.

    Then again, are they ever?

    < House Chamber a ghost town today | Tax dollars well spent: House plays hooky to hear UAW boss call job makers "swine" >


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    Display: Sort:
    The Peter Principle at work here (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dutchsma on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:18:44 AM EST
    "In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence."

    Recall? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by DanaP on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:38:42 AM EST
    I've been hearing a lot of murmuring about a recall bid - I would be interested in hearing thoughts about this!

    The comments by DeVos (1.00 / 1) (#3)
    by considerthis on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:49:19 AM EST
    Polls are only relevant when a real election is at stake.  DeVos spent $35 plus million dollars and never really said what he would do as governor. It is the problem will running rich people. You cannot exert any control, such as the ability to raise funds, on what they do. They can be a loose cannon as was DeVos.

    He did not even win in many republican counties

    The sad thing is some want him to run again and most likely lose again as it appears he has not learned anything from his rcent loss.

    loose cannon? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:59:41 AM EST
    Disagree with what you're saying but I see where you're coming from.  

    And you're absolutely spot on on one thing...The thing to remember with a poll like this is that people are judging DeVos based on their expectations while they're judging Granholm based on her actions.

    In that sense the poll is much more damaging to the governor than it is a buoy for any potential DeVos 2010 campaign.  

    Although, full disclosure, as a D4G staffer in 05-06 I did enjoy reading this particular poll.  :)

    2006 (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by goppartyreptile on Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:20:18 AM EST
    Before we get to excited about this poll, let's remember something...

    Devos should've won.  Devos could've won.  The fact that he didn't isn't  the stupidity or the mistakes of the voters, it is the shortcomings of his own campaign.  Ditto the loss of the house.

    The GOP blew it.

    The people were awake to the B.S. she was spewing.  They just didn't see an alternative, and we let the democrats paint us into a corner. Again.

    yes and no (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:27:43 AM EST
    I don't think, in hindsight, he could have won.

    Remember, there was not ONE incumbent democrat defeated in the United States of America in any US House, US Senate or Gubernatorial election in 2006.

    DeVos was Poor Choice (none / 0) (#7)
    by DMOnline on Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:59:37 AM EST
    Regrettably for Mr. DeVos, he had no competition during the Republican primary season in his race for the nomination.  Had he endured and prevailed in a competitive primary, he would've been a far better candidate against Ms. Granholm.

    Instead, he had a perpetual deer-in-the-headlights look in the debates with the governor.  He had countless opportunities to make his case and land a knock-out punch.  But DeVos was just too inexperienced.

    He may have made a fine governor.  But as a candidate, DeVos was pathetic.

    DMOnline

    well... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 12:04:33 PM EST
    should he decide to run in 2010 he'll have an entire campaign's worth of experience under his belt. :)

    But that's neither here nor there.  

    Like I said, I think the real news in these numbers is that Granholm's ability to govern is slipping away.

    (If it existed at all.)

    It'll be interesting to see how fast and how far moderate Democrats distance themselves.

    Keep in mind... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by mikefisk on Thu May 31, 2007 at 12:13:52 PM EST
    ...some of the polls before 11/7 showed DeVos very close to Granholm.  The final result was a pasting.

    Sadly, I find Granholm's victory not so much symbolic of the anti-GOP trend in 2006 (that, although troubling, is fixable) but rather Michigan's outright hostility to free-market capitalism.  Granholm's popularity before the election was only in the upper 20s, but she won, mainly by playing the China card early and often.  The state's almost hysterical fear of losing high-paying jobs to other parts of the world has resulted in a self-fulfilling prophecy: the jobs have left, never to return, despite the most optimistic efforts by our elected officials who continue to swear that we have a plan to right the state's economic ship.

    However, it's becoming more and more obvious in those regards that the emperor has no clothes, and continues to insist to everyone around that, if they can't see the splendor of the royal raiments, that they need new eyeglasses.  Nearly seven months ago, however, the voters decided that rhetoric trumps ideas, and now they'll have to suffer the consequences of their tragic miscalculation.

    "To all those whom I have not yet offended: Please stand by, and I will work to remedy the situation as soon as possible."

    Numbers? (none / 0) (#11)
    by PRStoetzer on Thu May 31, 2007 at 01:55:39 PM EST
    Nick,

    For those of us not privileged enough to have access to MIRS, what were the numbers in the poll?

    What I want (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by narphinugan on Thu May 31, 2007 at 01:57:22 PM EST
    We can talk about 2010 later. What I want right now is the chance to put a bumper sticker on my car that says:

    DON'T BLAME ME
    I VOTED FOR DEVOS

    Nick, if you make'em I'd buy one from you!

    PR (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 01:58:52 PM EST
    41 DeVos
    38 Granholm
    15 Neither

    • Thanks by PRStoetzer, 05/31/2007 02:04:00 PM EST (none / 0)
    yep (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 02:15:43 PM EST
    Like I said... it's slipping away from her.

    Buyers's Remorse (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MarensMom on Thu May 31, 2007 at 02:23:03 PM EST
    I told friends the day after the Election there would be buyer's remorse within six months, as far as the Gubernatorial Election.  So, I was late by about a month.  Happy talk and raised taxes will not bring a turnaround to Michigan.  Granholm didn't do anything for four years and that's not about to change.  If things continue as I fear for the national GOP, she may very well be a Dem Presidential appointee in 2009...maybe she should talk to Jim Blanchard about what it's like to be Ambassador to Canada and she can return to her people and give us a break.

    The election (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by NewMichigan on Thu May 31, 2007 at 02:36:59 PM EST
    Nick's comment about not one other statewide Dem incumbent being defeated in '06 is very relevant to any debate that some individuals clearly want to start here.  I think DeVos ran a good campaign that was hampered by two things:

    1).  The Dems' willingness to repeatedly, forcefully, and viciously lie and prey upon peoples worst fears and prejudices.

    2).  His basic decency and desire to run an honorable campaign.

    As much as political animals like those on this site want to think it, it wasn't all about debates.  Anybody would have a challenge against an actress/lawyer/politician in posession of what is clearly a sociopathic ability to lie.  It was about a national anti-Republican tide and the Dem ability to tie DeVos to Bush and China with lies and inuendo.

    And narphinugan, I couldn't agree with you more.  I think there are a ton of people who would love sporting those bumperstickers.

    • two points by goppartyreptile, 05/31/2007 04:18:23 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
    Amusing News Coverage of Poll (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by DMOnline on Thu May 31, 2007 at 03:26:51 PM EST
    Whilst at lunch today, I got to hear WOOD Radio News (Grand Rapids) report on this poll.  They were probably just reading from an AP script or something akin to that (WOOD does virtually no original reporting).

    They ascribed peoples' bad attitude toward Granholm to her failure to get the budget crisis solved.  

    Seems to me it's plausible the voters were most upset because she's gone back on campaign promises and is now trying to ram though a huge tax increase.  

    I could be wrong.  But I suspect few have actually been paying attention to the budget mess and the only snippet they've likely heard is that the Dems want to raise their taxes.

    DMOnline
    http://both-right.blogspot.com/

    Those Debates (none / 0) (#22)
    by DMOnline on Thu May 31, 2007 at 04:30:22 PM EST
    I'm relatively new here and I suspect last year's governor's election results have been fully debated in this arena.

    So at the risk of "beating a dead horse," I wanted to make clear I don't think DeVos' dismal performance in the debates was the only contributing factor to his loss.  However, aside from his commercials, that first debate was the very first time for most voters to see him in an unscripted environment.  That's when most voters got their real first impression of him.

    Frankly, I was stunned by his lack of performance.  He looked entirely unprepared and out of his league.  I'm willing to bet there were a significant number of "uncommitted" voters who made up their minds that night.

    Yes, all the other factors referenced previously played a role in his defeat.  But I just can't get over how unprepared DeVos looked for that first and most critical debate.

    DMOnline
    http://both-right.blogspot.com/

    Bill Buckley (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:15:07 PM EST
    would have had a tough time going up against Jennifer Granholm in this day and age.  

    OK, maybe not Bill Buckley, but you get my point.

    But that's neither here nor there... even WITH the shortcomings of the campaign folks are still saying according to this poll that they'd prefer DeVos to Granholm.

    And as has been noted earlier in the posts, his number hasn't changed much.  Her's has plummeted.  

    The governor is becoming increasingly marginalized and dangerous to her own party.  That's the lesson I see in those numbers.

    Would he have been much better? (1.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Angry White Male on Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:41:57 PM EST
    I'm very confident that if DeVos were governor it would be a classic case of "growing in office" - he would be pushing tax hikes and accepting weak, watered down reforms that do not enact the fundamental reform that's needed. The grass roots would be crying in their beer, and Bill Milliken would be singing Dick's praises on the budget side, if not on the social conservatism side. Frankly, this news is depressing. It will be very bad for the party if the billionaire waiting in the wings sucks the life out the chances of new new real leadership coming along. Dick's no John and never will be, and his presence lessens the chances of a new John entering the stage.

    • John Engler by John Galt, 05/31/2007 06:37:28 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
    AWM (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Nick on Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:46:04 PM EST
    I'm calling BS on that entire post.

    No way, no how.  You've got the guy all wrong.

    Poll (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Rougman on Thu May 31, 2007 at 07:09:29 PM EST
    I believe that DeVos would have made a much better governor than he did a candidate.  I agree that his oratory skills, particularly the combative type of discourse that is necessary when face to face with adversaries, were not particularly commanding.

    However, I do belive that DeVos' foundation in solid business economics would have been good for this state.  A successful businessman knows how to create a sound business environment and how to create jobs.

    A lawyer knows how to form committees and give speeches.

    Subtle? (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Angry White Male on Thu May 31, 2007 at 07:54:25 PM EST
    I must be slipping.

    STEP ASIDE, DICK!

    To Nick:

    Uh-huh.

    • The 2010 Race by John Galt, 05/31/2007 08:18:05 PM EST (none / 0)
    Sorry AWM, You're Wrong (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by DMOnline on Thu May 31, 2007 at 08:45:31 PM EST
    Dick DeVos may be many things but he's not a tax and spend moderate Republican.

    But I don't think he would've truly reformed the tax structure of this state enough to make us a jobs magnet.  I don't think he's that kind of visionary with solid leadership skills.

    I agree Mr. DeVos does need to step aside and we need to nominate that visionary with the requisite leadership skills.

    What are the other 49 states doing that's keeping their economies strong while Michigan wallows in the 6th year of a recession?  Are they right-to-work states?  What business climates have they created that keeps their unemployment rates so low compared to ours?  And how did they create them?

    We need a leader who will show us the way.  Who is that viable candidate?

    The first quarter US domestic growth was downgraded to only 0.6% (or something close to that).  The country could be on the verge of another recession.  We've still not emerged from the last one.  What's it going to take to turn this state around?

    DMOnline

    Alright, one question then - (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Angry White Male on Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:37:21 PM EST
    Did he take the No New Taxes pledge?

    (This'll be rich . . .

    The "No New Taxes" pledge... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by John Galt on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:37:15 AM EST
    If you're really banking a person's role of leadership on a "pledge"... then I don't think you should be as incredulous about leadership as you are.

    I would've thought you'd have more real-world wits than that.

    And for what it's worth, the following incumbents were ATR Pledge signers:

    Mike Bishop
    Marty Knollenberg
    Jim Barcia
    Wayne Kuipers
    Alan Sanborn
    Michelle McManus

    You've accused Mike Bishop of being the guy who will tank the Republican Party... your doomsday pessimism has him leading us into decades of misery.  But even he took the No-New-Taxes pledge.

    So i'm not sure what you're trying to get here, but my point isn't whether someone is measured by an individual pledge.  But we do have good people at the helm, like Mike Bishop, who have actions to backup their rhetoric.

    My Vote Counted (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Brokeinmacomb on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:29:31 PM EST
    I still have my circle" My vote counted" sticker on my desk on election day. Unfortunately It didnt mean anything because I saw it in my "Common sense" crystal ball what was coming for Michi-GONE. It was only 6 months ago!

    Questions about Devos (1.00 / 1) (#35)
    by considerthis on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    A couple of questions about Devos that some of you may know the answeres.

    From what I can determine, the only two people he ever worked for were his father and Uncle. Has any else ever given his a performance review?

    When he left, Amway, it seemed like he was given a push and he has floated around since then looking for something meaningful to do? Any sense?

    His campaign literature says he graduated from a special program at Northwood Uiversity. The type of program where job experience can count for credits.

    At the same time, I hear that he attended Calvin. If so, why did he leave Calvin?

    Given the family funded the Northwood U graduate business school, it could raise questions about what he did while at Northwood. He says he attended a couple of courses at Northwood. Northwood does not exactly have the academic standards that you would expect for the son of  a very rich person unless, the student just never applied himself.

    What is your sense?

    a few answers (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Nick on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:00:42 PM EST
    A couple of questions about Devos that some of you may know the answeres.
    From what I can determine, the only two people he ever worked for were his father and Uncle. Has any else ever given his a performance review?

    You're right and you're wrong.  DeVos worked in the family business for a time and worked every job from tour guide to loading trucks until taking on a leadership role inside the company.  Under his direction the company was transformed from a struggling Michigan manufacturer to a global superpower with 80% of it's business consisting of Michigan exports to other nations.

    But beyond his Amway / Alticor experience he's started a variety of other businesses including Windquest, a closet storage system manufacturer in Holland, MI and of course he's acted as the President / CEO of the Orlando Magic basketball team.  There are a ton of others but those are sort of the highlights if you will.

    When he left, Amway, it seemed like he was given a push and he has floated around since then looking for something meaningful to do? Any sense?

    On this one you couldn't be more wrong.  DeVos stepped away from Alticor on his own for a time and turned things over to others in his family.  When his father became ill (he wound up having a heart transplant) the DeVos and Van Andel families sought him out and persuaded him to step aside from his other ventures to COME BACK to head the company again for a time.  He did, led it through a dramatic turnaround and left on top.

    I'd put his business experience and expertise up against just about anyone in the United States.  And you can judge that on results.

    His campaign literature says he graduated from a special program at Northwood Uiversity. The type of program where job experience can count for credits.

    At the same time, I hear that he attended Calvin. If so, why did he leave Calvin?

    Campaign lit?  Where are you getting campaign lit?  Did I miss a 2010 announcement?  

    You're right, he graduated from Northwood.  Attended there after leaving Calvin.  Probably for the same reason I left Cornerstone and went to Grand Valley.  Every school isn't a perfect fit for every student.  I needed a change of environment and focus, personally.

    Given the family funded the Northwood U graduate business school, it could raise questions about what he did while at Northwood. He says he attended a couple of courses at Northwood. Northwood does not exactly have the academic standards that you would expect for the son of  a very rich person unless, the student just never applied himself.

    Again, you're off base on this one...  Dick's been very generous after graduating as, dare I say, many are to their alma maters.  As far as academic standards, Northwood is considered one of the premier business schools in the United States.

    Hope I was able to help.



    better (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Nick on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:49:47 PM EST
    business schools in the nation.  

    Other than that, right on, JG.

    Where's my don't blame me sticker (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Republican Michigander on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 05:08:33 PM EST
    All I have to say about this poll are two things.

    1. Thanks Dubs. #@T#%#

    2. To those who voted for Granholm with buyer's remorse - don't cry to me. I actually did something about this.


    If you can't beat 'em...destroy them? (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by justbeachy on Tue Jun 05, 2007 at 02:14:16 AM EST
    Granholm isn't the first politician to run down a truly decent human being--she's just the most brazen.  Just like Hillary tried to blame away Bill's scandals on some "vast right-wing conspiracy," Granholm tried to deflect from her shortcomings and blame Michigan's difficulties on a successful business person whose only "crime" was entering and harnessing the ripe-for-picking asian market which grew his Michigan operation and HELPED MICHIGAN WORKERS.  Yeah, I can see how that might be a problem...it's much easier to see how much she can't get done when measured against how much he CAN.

    I talked (none / 0) (#42)
    by Nick on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 05:29:00 PM EST
    to a lot of the workers whose jobs he saved.  They were all pretty appreciative.

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