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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    House Democrat Tax Hike Wall of Shame


    By Nick, Section News
    Posted on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 09:05:44 AM EST
    Tags: (all tags)

    HOUSE DEMOCRATS VOTING TO RAISE TAXES ON MICHIGAN FAMILIES


    Reps Frank Accavitti Jr., Kathy Angerer, Joan Bauer, Doug Bennett, Steve Bieda and Terry Brown.


    Reps Pam Byrnes, Barb Byrum, Marsha Cheeks, Brenda Clack, Ed Clemente and Paul Condino.

    Reps Bob Constan, Marc Corriveau, Andy Coulouris, George Cushingberry, Robert Dean and Andy Dillon.

    Reps Marie Donigan, Kate Ebli, John Espinoza, Barbara Farrah, Matthew Gillard and Lee Gonzales.

    Reps Martin Griffin, Richard Hammel, Ted Hammon, Morris Hood, III, Hoon-Yung Hopgood and Shanelle Jackson.

    Reps Bert Johnson, Robert Jones, Michael Lahti, Kathleen Law, Richard LeBlanc and Gabe Leland.

     

    Reps Lamar Lemmons, Jr., Steven Lindberg, Jeff Mayes, Gary McDowell, Mark Meadows and Andy Meisner.

    Reps Tim Melton, Fred Miller, Gino Polidori, Mike Sak, Bettie Cook Scott and Joel Sheltrown.

    Reps Mike Simpson, Alma Smith, Virgil Smith, Dudley Spade, Steve Tobocman and Aldo Vagnozzi.

    Reps Mary Valentine, Rebekah Warren, Lisa Wojno and Coleman Young, II.

    HOUSE REPUBLICANS VOTING TO RAISE TAXES ON MICHIGAN FAMILIES

    Reps Ed Gaffney and Chris Ward.


    < It is not too early to get involved | Mike Simpson Responds >


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    Display: Sort:
    Gaffney I can understand (none / 0) (#1)
    by John Galt on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 09:16:56 AM EST
    He's a RINO... (Supposedly a Democrat, but since they dont' get elected in Grosse Pointe calls himself a Republican).

    But Chris Ward should have know better.


    So should have Brown, Corriveau, Dean, Griffin... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Nick on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 09:19:03 AM EST
    Simpson and Valentine.  All from relatively conservative districts where a $1.3 BILLION tax hike is going to do a lot of damage to the local economy.

    The List of RINOs Who Must Go... (none / 0) (#3)
    by DMOnline on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 09:23:31 AM EST
    Here's the list for both tax hikes according to the Free Press:

    Income Tax Increase - Was 3.9%; Now will be 4.35%
    State Senate:

        * Patricia Birkholz - Saugatuck
        * Tom George - Portage
        * Ron Jelinek - Three Oaks
        * Gerald VanWoerkom - Norton Shores

    State House:

        * Chris Ward - Brighton
        * Ed Gafney - Grosse Pointe

    Sales Tax Extension to Several Services
    State Senate:

        * Wayne Kuipers - Holland
        * Ron Jelinek - Three Oaks
        * Valde Garcia - Howell

    State House:

        * None

    • Recall List by Calhoun Kid, 10/01/2007 10:51:55 AM EST (none / 0)
    Where's the list of Republicans (none / 0) (#4)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 09:38:01 AM EST
    who refused to vote for the original MESSA bill? Or that didn't matter to you?

    I should have placed a bet (none / 0) (#9)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 11:01:06 AM EST
    because, as I predicted over two weeks ago, not one Republican brought forward a plan for $1.7 billion in cuts and not one Republican voted for it.

    http://www.rightmichigan.com/comments/2007/9/16/23026/9965/2#2

    That's right, not one.

    Add to the recall list... (none / 0) (#12)
    by LX on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 11:42:47 AM EST
    Dhimmi Polidori, D-15 Dearborn

    For those that don't know, Dhimmi - the Arabic term that refers to its non-Islamic embracing population that has the ignominious dishonor of living in Islamic conquered lands.


    • Where's that? by NoviDemocrat, 10/01/2007 12:03:06 PM EST (none / 0)
    Looking for a nice House? (none / 0) (#14)
    by apackof2 on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:02:03 PM EST
    Anyone looking for a great house in Holt?

    I'll be reducing the price now, not just to help with the 6% increase in the title document prepartion I have to pay but in hopes of escaping a state controlled by liberal Democrats and spineless turn coat Republicans!

    Sorry but I am just plain disgusted right now

    These Crooks (none / 0) (#16)
    by Brokeinmacomb on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:07:41 PM EST
    This wall Of shame will look nice lining my Catbox.

    I noticed that Nick excluded (none / 0) (#17)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:11:12 PM EST
    the Senators, even though they were the more critical vote, since there are a lot more Republicans on that list. But that must not fit Saul's talking points today.  

    • ND by Mark Adams, 10/01/2007 12:39:10 PM EST (none / 0)
    A list of the good guys! (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbuch on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:23:13 PM EST
    Another equally good title would be "House Democrats who voted to continue providing government services to Michigan citizens."

    Novidemocrat TROLL (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by LX on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 12:44:28 PM EST
    The white men that you're referring to are called settlers. Pilgrims' that arrived in Jamestown, Plymouth and Williamsburg and founded the United States of America.

    Save your bleeding heart liberal diatribe for a blog that lends itself to your anti-Semitic and homophobic allegations.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Classy
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:28:13 AM EST

    Guess I can see where the Larry Craig's and the Bob Packwood's of the world get started."

    Reference: http://www.rightmichigan.com/story/2007/9/10/161713/749

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Everyone is off Saturday
    by NoviDemocrat on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 10:46:25 AM EST

    So the Republicans can hob-nob at Mackinac Island and Jewish members can observe Yom Kippur.

    Reference: http://www.rightmichigan.com/story/2007/9/21/101858/253

    So what's next? (none / 0) (#21)
    by gholland on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 01:17:41 PM EST
    Is the state lost? Will taxes continue to get raised until there is no body left to tax? Is there anybody organizing a recall effort?

    Take the 3 Dems out (none / 0) (#23)
    by jsnhsr on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 01:58:16 PM EST
    You have the 3 Democrats who voted no in the group of Dem pictures.

    Why do Republicans hate Michigan? (none / 0) (#26)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 02:07:52 PM EST
    10 years ago in Michigan, you paid a higher income tax rate, businesses paid a higher business tax rate and the increase in the sales tax from 4% to 6% was just a couple of years past. But somehow the state managed not to collapse upon itself. Your relentless Michigan-bashing is getting kind of old.

    They Forgot They Were Republicans (none / 0) (#30)
    by xyzzy on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 03:04:31 PM EST
    This is from "The Republican Plan" that appears on both Rep. Gaffney and Ward's websites:

    "There are only two ways for Michigan to fix its budget deficit. Either government reforms and tightens its belt, or families will be forced to tighten theirs. Michigan families are already struggling with a tough employment and housing market, and the last thing we should do is ask them to pay more to fund a bloated state bureaucracy."

    I guess they forgot they were Republicans.

    tax on financial advisors (none / 0) (#32)
    by abc123 on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 04:14:44 PM EST
    WHY ARE WE TAXING FINANCIAL ADVISORS?

    DO WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE SAVING TOO MUCH MONEY ON THEIR OWN?

    IS TOTAL DEPENDENCE ON THE GOVERNMENT THE GOAL???

    tax on financial advisors (none / 0) (#33)
    by mipt on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 04:27:40 PM EST
    did me in.  I mentioned it on another board and was told this was for rich people only.  huh?
    The only thing I can figure out is that public employees may have no need for them and therefore they are seen as a luxury?  
    I not only don't get it, I can not think of a bigger mistake.

    As a financial Advisor (none / 0) (#34)
    by aaugusti on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 04:51:46 PM EST
    I am going to be hit double on this. Most people are on Automatic Investment Programs where the money comes directly out each month. As an example a invests $100 per month into an A share mutual fund. The maximum sales charge is 5.75%, and the more you have with the fun family the lower the charge is. Of that 5.75%, 5% goes to the house and the .75% goes to the Fund Family. So the house collects 5 bucks, my share of that is 2 bucks. The state will charge the sales tax on the whole 5.75%, which comes to 34.5 cents, which gets rounded up to 35 cents. I know that the house is not going to pick up the tab on this one, and the cost gets passed along to me in the form of lower commissions.

    The second example is managed money. If I am the manager a 10 million dollar portfolio, the charge is a 1% wrap fee per year. My client sees that charge come out in 4 quarterly installments of $25000. My pay will be about $10,000 off of that. The difference here is that the sales tax of $1500 will be deducted from the account of my client.

    I am willing to guarantee that EVERY large 401k plan and Pension Fund will move out of the state of Michigan within a year. If the fund can be run cheaper just by naming a manager in another state it will be done this way. The people who lose are the financial advisors.

    The other thing that I want to know is what happens with my clients that do not live in Michigan. Is it going to be based on where the advisor is domiciled or where the client lives?

    FairTax (none / 0) (#38)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:30:09 PM EST
    How would the FairTax treated these services? Taxed or not?

    • It is unclear by aaugusti, 10/01/2007 05:40:02 PM EST (none / 0)
      • NO TAX by jzatkoff, 10/01/2007 07:53:55 PM EST (none / 0)
    As much as this sucks..... (none / 0) (#41)
    by jdee on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:41:33 PM EST
    We(Michiganers)need to take a bit of responsibility ourselves.  We allowed a knee-jerk anti-Republican sentiment last November to put the left in office in Lansing, and most of us sat home this weekend watching football, raking our yards and preparing for hunting season.  I heard Rick Albon of Grand Rapids TV8 mention that there were very few who came to Lansing to let our feelings be known.  The legislature can ignore their emails, but 100,000 people on their doorstep demanding no higher taxes, that they could not.  But we weren't there.  So we get what we got.  Sucks.

    So what now?  

    That is the question begging to be asked.  We are mad, we are frustrated, but....

    What are we going to do about it?

    It has to be more than blogs and it has to be sooner than November '08.  We have a state to defend, we have families that need better government now, not later.

    So this will require action.  I, for one, refuse to stand still and allow special interests and tax-n-spenders to destroy our home.

    As Nick puts it, stay tuned.....its gonna be a wild and bumpy ride....but I've read my Bible, and I know who wins....

    Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

    • I agree by Calhoun Kid, 10/01/2007 05:54:29 PM EST (none / 0)
    Correction (none / 0) (#48)
    by aaugusti on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 10:08:28 PM EST
    The tax on Investment Advisors applies only to fee based business, not transactional. So if you buy a financial plan, or have a Wrap fee account you will pay tax on it.

    Hope that clears things up.

    Paycheck to Paycheck (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ed Burley on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 11:47:15 PM EST
    These people betrayed the working poor in the state of Michigan. Me and my family were just prevented from making it from paycheck to paycheck. Where or where will I need to cut? It may only be $4 a week, but when you are living paycheck to paycheck, that's a lot.

    You know what the Democrats over on the Free Press forums told me when I said this: "get a better paying job." How's that for irony, eh? Demand it of me, but not the welfare slime that they pander to.

    I'm sick; had Republicans reigned in spending under Engler, we wouldn't be in this mess. Engler's tax cuts increased revenue, and these guys just spent it rather than looking to return it to the taxpayers by either cutting taxes further, or eliminating income tax altogether.

    I'm done with Repubs. VOTE LIBERTARIAN.


    My Senator (none / 0) (#55)
    by Phillydilly on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 03:18:22 PM EST
    I just want to take a second and thank my senator from the 6th district, Glenn Anderson. Despite being a democrat, he voted against this tax increase.
    This is from his response to an email I sent Sunday.

    "The volume of email, phone calls and letters I received on the income tax and service tax proposals was unprecedented and overwhelmingly opposed the increases."

    Thank you again, even if the increases passed, for voting in line with what your constituents asked.

    I'll second that! (none / 0) (#56)
    by Nick on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 03:23:26 PM EST


    Sure, I'd love to. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ed Burley on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 03:27:05 PM EST
    Sure, I'd love to:

    Take a look at from 1968 through 1983, when Unionism was the strongest in our state. All we see there are tax increases, except for one decrease - an increase in an exemption. We went from $0 (no income tax) to $3.6428M. The growth of the auto industry, as well as the ridiculous rise in wage rates brought in plenty of money. Problem was, it also brought in the poorest quality automobiles ever seen on the road. Just compare any care from 1968 - Chevelle, Mustang, GTO, etc. to the cars being produced in Michigan in the early 80s.

    Starting in 1983, our income tax was cut something like 14 times. Initially, as all tax cuts do, the revenue dropped. However, within a couple of years, it started to soar - rising to as high as $7.2465M in 2000, and dropping off thanks to a downturn in Michigan's economy, thanks to a new loss of union thug employment. By your own chart, income tax is now at $5.912M, up from $3.6428M when the cuts began.

    As I said, tax cuts increase revenue.

    Now, regarding the SBT. Notice that the only years revenue dropped was when the tax was reworked. This is usually because accountants and revenuers, as well as the businesspeople, need time to figure out what they are doing. In the last few years, yes of course, SBT revenues decreased. That's the point. Tax on business is supposed to decrease when you get rid of the tax - DUH! Oh sorry, I forgot you're a Democrat; you can't be expected to know that....

    By looking at this stuff so narrowly, you are missing the big picture. Let's look at the state revenue that was fueled by cutting the taxes.

    Years   Revenue  Expenditures
    1983-84 13,023.6 12,078.4
    1984-85 13,733.8 13,039.7
    1985-86 14,901.9 14,115.7
    1986-87 16,601.5 15,892.3
    1987-88 17,582.3 16,948.1
    1988-89 18,377.3 17,576.4
    1989-90 19,105.6 19,038.0
    1990-91 20,667.4 21,486.9
    1991-92 23,408.9 22,286.3
    1992-93 24,026.8 23,394.2
    1993-94 26,209.9 24,205.1
    1994-95 28,989.4 27,784.9
    1995-96 30,536.3 29,919.4
    1996-97 31,710.3 30,456.5
    1997-98 33,291.8 31,543.2
    1998-99 34,373.7 32,890.5
    1999-2000 36,643.3 34,698.9
    2000-01 38,910.9 39,369.7
    2001-02 39,608.1 41,696.8
    2002-03 39,965.1 41,599.9
    2003-04 41,456.5 42,024.1
    2004-05 42,256.2 42,445.6
    2005-06 43,928.9 43,922.4

    Department of Management and Budget, June 2007.

    • Contradictions by NoviDemocrat, 10/02/2007 05:53:50 PM EST (none / 0)
    Cutting taxes (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ed Burley on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 07:12:41 PM EST
    NoviDemocrat,
    I know that it is difficult for someone who votes Democrat to even begin to think intelligently, but please try for a minute.

    First of all, I am the libertarian here - I will not defend over-spending drunken Republicans any more than I will defend Commie Democrats.

    Secondly, "Cutting" taxes increases revenue. You cannot expect a tax that no longer exists to increase revenue - unless you are a stupid Democrat.

    Thirdly, you Dems spend endless hours blaming Engler for "cutting taxes," mock when folks like me explain that cutting taxes leads to increased revenues, and then when I show the truth of it, complain that Engler raised taxes in order to get the increased revenue. Which is it buddy?

    Did Engler CUT or INCREASE taxes? Did he merely re-direct them? Then it's not a tax cut, now is it. Regardless of what you claim about anything, tax cuts in the context of smaller government, leaves more money in the hands of the taxpayer so that they can stimulate economic growth through investment and personal spending. Anyone with a high school diploma should be able to figure that out - but of course since Democrats love public education, there's no guarantees that they understand anything after 13 years of indoctrination; er, I mean, education.

    I have maintained a cut in the budget of around 50%, with the elimination of the income tax. That will stimulate the economy to a level that will blow this state away - for real. Democrats can't understand that, mainly because their definition of being blown away means moving out of the state.


    • No one by NoviDemocrat, 10/02/2007 08:51:41 PM EST (none / 0)
      • Duh by Ed Burley, 10/03/2007 12:25:02 AM EST (none / 0)
    Shifting Taxes (none / 0) (#63)
    by Calhoun Kid on Wed Oct 03, 2007 at 12:06:10 AM EST
    But Engler didn't so much as cut taxes as he shifted them.  The dirty secret in Michigan government is the increases in all the fees that have taken place over the past decade.  Much of what was once funded through taxes from the general fund is now funded through fees in the restricted fund.  The DNR and DEQ are key examples.  Both departments receive much less general fund support than 10 years ago, but aren't a whole lot smaller.  They simply have higher fees.

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